tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6786565.post8789839325791886404..comments2023-12-17T16:13:06.670-05:00Comments on In a Godward direction: What Would Gamaliel Do?Tobias Stanislas Haller BSGhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08047429477181560685noreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6786565.post-41654782007713649122007-02-16T14:21:00.000-05:002007-02-16T14:21:00.000-05:00Dear Paul, I did think of our close friends the Lu...Dear Paul, I did think of our close friends the Lutherans, and my favorite composer (J S Bach); and certainly meant no diminution by their ommission from what I didn't mean to be an exhaustive list! As to JSB, I can only echo the famous words of Beethoven: he should not be a mere Brook, but Ocean... I would love to see us put him into Lesser Feasts and Fasts, as ELCA has him on the LBW calendar...Tobias Stanislas Haller BSGhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08047429477181560685noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6786565.post-64401040654187886752007-02-16T13:45:00.000-05:002007-02-16T13:45:00.000-05:00Tobias, I have always thought this way about the B...Tobias, I have always thought this way about the Body of Christ. You just expressed it more eloquently than I ever could.<BR/><BR/>I would just add that the church of J. S. Bach could be credited with a small contribution to our musical heritage.Paulhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02410143259690873128noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6786565.post-39294559791538176762007-02-15T21:04:00.000-05:002007-02-15T21:04:00.000-05:00Tobias, I'm jealous. You got more valentines than...Tobias, I'm jealous. You got more valentines than I did.<BR/><BR/>Your post brings wonderful insight into what we see as the woes of the AC, which may well be the work of the Spirit. Your idea is definitely worth a try.<BR/><BR/>R, Jesus, indeed, never founded an institution, and I doubt that was in his plan.<BR/><BR/>And 3n1-1n3, I like the reminder that the nature of God is relational.<BR/><BR/>The post and comments here are enlightening and uplifting. They're a relief from the hand-wringing and moaning and groaning.June Butlerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01723016934182800437noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6786565.post-84546296882523005792007-02-15T11:33:00.000-05:002007-02-15T11:33:00.000-05:00It having been Valentine's Day, perhaps I ought to...It having been Valentine's Day, perhaps I ought to have followed up with the analogy of the Gumpian Box of Chocolates. Clearly some of the various churches are soft centers, while others are nuts -- but they are all chocolates!<BR/>;-)<BR/>tobiasTobias Stanislas Haller BSGhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08047429477181560685noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6786565.post-50839810864987524272007-02-15T10:03:00.000-05:002007-02-15T10:03:00.000-05:00This is one of the most wonderful and wise insight...This is one of the most wonderful and wise insights I've read. I believe an insight as powerful and potent as this will last.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6786565.post-56681223157873587312007-02-15T06:51:00.000-05:002007-02-15T06:51:00.000-05:00PB Schori is on to this Gamaliel thing, too. (See ...PB Schori is on to this Gamaliel thing, too. (See point 3, <A HREF="http://churchman.blogspot.com/2007/02/sex-in-heavens.html" REL="nofollow">here</A>.)John B. Chiltonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18208312356775869565noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6786565.post-30243160846379508112007-02-14T22:58:00.000-05:002007-02-14T22:58:00.000-05:00I would tend to agree with you. Unity doesn't mea...I would tend to agree with you. <I>Unity</I> doesn't mean <I>sameness</I>. We certainly can be unified while recognizing each other's gifts for ministry. But that doesn't mean we all have to sign off on the same confessional statement.<BR/><BR/>The problem, though, is that people have this <I>If you aren't with us, you're against us</I> attitude. Consequently unity has been bastardized to mean lock-step sameness. We tend to focus on what divides us, rather than what unites us. And that's a shame.Reverend Ref +https://www.blogger.com/profile/12608521436386973234noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6786565.post-55934674466468889322007-02-14T22:53:00.000-05:002007-02-14T22:53:00.000-05:00Tobias,Couldn't agree with you more. In a very cl...Tobias,<BR/><BR/>Couldn't agree with you more. In a very clear sense, Jesus did not found an institution, and our chasing after one says so much more about us that it does about Christ.<BR/><BR/>I sense that you would agree with me that the body in the "Body of Christ" suggests an organic kind of unity with all the distinct parts that go right back to the Pauline epistles and the diversity of the apostles. We got hooked on uniformity with the rise of Empire. As some have suggested for many years, Anglicanism got in trouble when it became dependent on Empire, too. I think that's one of the big elephants (no hidden meaning there, I promise) that have not been fully addressed by any of the Instruments of Unity to this point.<BR/><BR/>Anyway, I'm also enamored with Church reflecting the Trinitarian understanding of perichoresis -- an organic unity, but more than that -- a dance that is interdependent, full of life, and lighthearted -- something my bishop, Marc Andrus, characterized in a recent address as a dance of possession and dispossession.<BR/><BR/>Most everything else is about clinging to power and control -- two things, it seems to me, God in Christ subverts with the very heart of the Gospel, particularly through the passion and resurrection that transforms not only the human heart but the very fabric of the universe itself. <BR/><BR/>Always good to comment here, and thank you for maintaining such a high level integrity that the rest of us bloggers can only aspire to!<BR/><BR/>God's peace.Rhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07474786207149076221noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6786565.post-21107955549707059932007-02-14T21:51:00.000-05:002007-02-14T21:51:00.000-05:00Tobias--Thank you for this. You may be on to somet...Tobias--<BR/>Thank you for this. You may be on to something.<BR/><BR/>I would add that the image of the Trinity takes what you write further. <BR/><BR/>We have always believed that the Trinity reflects the fullness of God. The unique and distinct natures of the three persons of the Trinity do not detract, we believe, from the fullness of God.<BR/><BR/>The Trinity also tells us that God is relational by nature. That one of the signs of the unity of the triune God is the way the Three relate to each other as the One.<BR/><BR/>It is difficult for many people--including many Christians-- to grasp the truth and the mystery of the Trinity. If, as you suggest, our unity is not found institutionally but in our many charisms all pointed towards Christ, then perhaps it is an act of un-faith, an inability to trust in God, to think that the only way we can express our unity in Christ in strictly institutional terms.<BR/><BR/>Thank you.<BR/><BR/>Andrew+Andrew Gernshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10915827125794387657noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6786565.post-26556135578744807432007-02-14T20:45:00.000-05:002007-02-14T20:45:00.000-05:00I heartily agree: http://episcopalhospitalchaplain...I heartily agree: http://episcopalhospitalchaplain.blogspot.com/2006/06/varieties-of-gifts.html.Marshall Scotthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02807749717320495495noreply@blogger.com