tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6786565.post5585895444705038584..comments2023-12-17T16:13:06.670-05:00Comments on In a Godward direction: When the Benefit is the CostTobias Stanislas Haller BSGhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08047429477181560685noreply@blogger.comBlogger9125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6786565.post-46739554098206199922010-10-14T12:10:20.307-05:002010-10-14T12:10:20.307-05:00No matter how many times I read Part 4 of the Angl...No matter how many times I read Part 4 of the Anglican Covenant, I read it as binding the members of the Communion to agree to punitive consequences for those who don't have their doctrinal and/or biblical ducks lined up in a proper row. The consequences are vague, and, as Part 4 reads, I am not even clear as to who will decide on the consequences for recalcitrant members.<br /><br />Perhaps, the section is clearer than I perceive, but I don't see, as I read the document, how the Episcopal Church could or would want to sign on to such an agreement.June Butlerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01723016934182800437noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6786565.post-68988142760120076462010-10-13T16:09:50.848-05:002010-10-13T16:09:50.848-05:00Thanks again, Christopher. It is astounding that d...Thanks again, Christopher. It is astounding that diversity is not only tolerated by celebrated (and embedded in the liturgical texts and the Articles) on doctrinal theological issues such as the nature of the Eucharist and the Atonement (where all of the different theories sit comfortably cheek by jowl) -- yet toleration of diversity on a matter of pastoral or moral theology, and touching on rites and ceremonies (granted explicit license for diversity in the formularies!) has become such an issue of of required submission and uniformity -- even in the face of the admission that the old consensus no longer holds!<br /><br />Madness.Tobias Stanislas Haller BSGhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08047429477181560685noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6786565.post-69576614676995092202010-10-12T21:10:48.032-05:002010-10-12T21:10:48.032-05:00Precisely, as I noted following my research, our c...Precisely, as I noted following my research, our catholicity is a comprehensiveness historically and locally shaped:<br /><br />"That on Holy Communion, for example, the views of Jewell, Andrewes, and DeKoven can all be held together as authentically Anglican is nothing less than remarkable. To my mind, such possibility says more about the type of persons and communities Anglicanism forms, not out of a bland mediocrity but more a middle way created by interconnected tensions, similar to what Christopher Haigh terms “parish anglicans.” And thus, I cannot help but notice how so often we have argued for our catholicity, belying the wound that our break with Rome occasioned—a break that in turn required our own apologies. Yet, through these controversies as conversations, I glimpse a particular way of being catholic. This catholicity, contra much popular Anglican mythos, is not merely “unmarked,” but like Israel at Peni’el profoundly touched by our own wrestling with God and one another. Just perhaps, precisely because of this, Hooker prophesied rightly our spirit and ethos:<br /><br />O God of truth and peace, who didst raise up thy servant Richard Hooker in a day of bitter controversy to defend with sound reasoning and great charity the catholic and reformed religion: Grant that we may maintain that middle way, not as a compromise for the sake of peace, but as a comprehension for the sake of truth; through Jesus Christ our Lord, who liveth and reigneth with thee and the Holy Spirit, one God, for ever and ever."<br /><br />Unpublished Dissertation, 222-223.Closedhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04752595488795781895noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6786565.post-32836418750775960882010-10-12T10:18:41.096-05:002010-10-12T10:18:41.096-05:00You're welcome, Oldmiler. And thanks for the n...You're welcome, Oldmiler. And thanks for the note relating this to that powerful Gospel!Tobias Stanislas Haller BSGhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08047429477181560685noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6786565.post-49695558956389611612010-10-12T09:53:27.280-05:002010-10-12T09:53:27.280-05:00Thanks for the image of the "Farewell Symphon...Thanks for the image of the "Farewell Symphony." It makes clear that consensus is just another name for the univocality at the heart of the covenant's ethic of purity. I'm pretty sure JC's life, death and resurrection are meant to free us from worshipping just such idols. Ironic that Proper 23C's gospel sings it so well with the voice of the lone leper in thanksgiving. In my less than Jesuit calculations the evils of the Covenant outweigh the goods.The Very Rev. Daniel B. Brownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05205607142223107826noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6786565.post-84894149131865273562010-10-12T09:44:27.024-05:002010-10-12T09:44:27.024-05:00AngloCat -- my position exactly. I think God does ...AngloCat -- my position exactly. I think God does not want a single world-church; the whole ecumenical enterprise (if it leads to a single institutional church) is contrary to the will of God, and this is why it runs aground. God loves 'unity-in-diversity' -- a body with many organs, not a monolithic blob.<br /><br />Marshall, ah, yes, so many Anglicans moon over Rome and Byzantium! Ain't gonna happen -- we know their terms -- and we are far better off seeing ourselves in line with the Lutheran models, as in fact we are!<br /><br />Christopher, precisely. Uniformity is not comprehension.Tobias Stanislas Haller BSGhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08047429477181560685noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6786565.post-71839744119256975352010-10-11T23:19:17.503-05:002010-10-11T23:19:17.503-05:00Most of the things I love about being Anglican are...Most of the things I love about being Anglican are precisely those things that seem to be identified as the problem by those pushing this covenant. Beyond the minima, as you say, we are incredibly diverse which means I can learn from a broad range of Christians and their ways of understanding God's self-gift in Christ as well as God's showing Godself through creation and at work in our social worlds. Why we want to be pinned down because other traditions want us more pinned down is beyond me. It is our comprehensiveness and flexibility that makes possible adaptation so that catholicity can be found in variety. Catholicity as these folks define it is a bland generality of the ether rather than the rich multivariant spectrum of lived Anglican catholicity shaped by the contexts and histories of localities, of place.Closedhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04752595488795781895noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6786565.post-64038426728800034642010-10-11T22:22:25.716-05:002010-10-11T22:22:25.716-05:00Well, yes, Tobias, apparently Porvoo and Called to...Well, yes, Tobias, apparently Porvoo and Called to Common Mission, and its Canadian equivalent are, if not chopped liver, the potted plants of ecumenism - at least, as far as those pursuing a Covenant are concerned. Canterbury is focused on Rome and Constantinople and their connections. The Global South leaders are interested in their evangelical colleagues in their own backyards.<br /><br />You know, we could embrace the Articles - at least some, but a different collection than most Covenant types point to - and lean into our Lutheran heritage. Let us embrace our position as the church catholic ever reforming, emphasizing not the tension framed by Anglo-Papalists and Anglo-Calvinists, but instead being Anglo-Luthero-Catholic.<br /><br />And I'm only half kidding - and perhaps less than half.Marshall Scotthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02807749717320495495noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6786565.post-89237739124863665672010-10-11T20:26:50.058-05:002010-10-11T20:26:50.058-05:00The answer, Tobias, is of course, no. But I think...The answer, Tobias, is of course, no. But I think the end sought for--creating a world wide church--is a bad one. I'm with Richard Hooker on this one. In the Preface to the Laws of Ecclesiastical Polity, Hooker posits that the evolution of churches in their places of planting reflects the needs of those among whom the church grows up and that even the means of organization may properly vary from place to place. Moreover, the foibles as well as the virtues of great figures (such as Calvin, in Hooker's time) may be reflected in not only their own churches, but those which adopt their teaching. Institutionally, local control and autonomy is a way of allowing for the correction of error, as discerned over time.<br /><br />And that, not simple anti-Roman Catholic spite, is the justification for Article 37, stating that "The King's Majesty hath the chief power in this Realm of England, and other his Dominions, unto whom the chief Government of all Estates of this Realm, whether they be Ecclesiastical or Civil, in all causes doth appertain, and is not, nor ought to be, subject to any foreign Jurisdiction." <br /><br />The Covenant, with all other issues put to the side, subverts the fundamental balance struck in Anglicanism.Anglocathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03218740053628978255noreply@blogger.com